PREFACE

In one hundred years Krzysztof Wodiczko will be recognized as the world's most important artist for the late twentieth century. His projections of socially charged images onto historical monuments, such as his 1980's projection of a loaded shopping cart and pinstripe shirt onto a Lenin statue during the fall of the Soviet Union, reveal critical truths in a quirky and spectacularized manner. Lenin is transformed into just another shopper at the mall, and an image of the absorbative powers of global capitalism.

Other projects have included the 'Homelss Vehicle Project', where Wodiczko designed vehicles for New York's homeless. These vehicles were based on the design of the shopping cart and folded out into a compact sleeping unit, which also held recycling, stored personal items and allowed for bathing. The vehicles were designed specifically for the needs of New Yorks 'nomadic' population and addressed homelessness. They were confiscated by the city when they were introduced on the streets because they brought so much attention to the issue.

Most recently, Wodiczko created a series of controversial projections at ground zero of the atomic bombing in Hiroshima, Japan. At its center is a peace monument, a concrete building that survived the blast and has become a shrine and memorial. Like many of his projections, the Hiroshima projections were about animating the historical unconscious of the building so that it can speak to us about what it has seen.This was done by interviewing Japanese people whose lives were affected by the bomb and projecting images of their hands at the base of the building on the river bank at night, while broadcasting their voices. Thousands of people gathered to witness the events, which were also broadcast live through Japan. Excerpts from a recent interview with Wodiczko concerning this work appear below. A film of the Hiroshima project is now showing at Galerie Lelong in New York City. Kryzysztif Wodiczko currently teaches at M.I.T..

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An interview with artist Krzysztof Wodiczko, hosted by Galerie Lelong, New York City , in conjunction with Dan Cameron, Senior Curator at the New Museum.

October 20th, 2000 - Galerie Lelong, NYC

Krzysztof Wodiczko (speaking) - The projection at the peace monument is a recreation of other events and experiences which are still present in Hiroshima and outside Hiroshima. Even people who are 3rd generation from the blast- they somehow have found a connection to the monument. The next generations should also try to find a connection too. Right now, this monument is taken for granted by many people, I was told. It's just another monument- people come and photograph themselves in front of it. It's just an important landmark structure.

Dan Cameron- But it's rhetorical power within the society is disputed.

K.W. - Yes, for the younger generation. For them it is not as meaningful.

D.C.- Is it that the event (the bombing) is not as charged for them?

K.W.- No, the monument is not as charged

D.C.- How did you see that the younger generation experienced their relationship to the monument?

K.W.- Well, first of all, in Hiroshima they are subjected to something called compulsory peace education. Hiroshima is designated officially as a city of peace. Therefore, it works by day and night as a peace reminder. But its done in such a way that many of the young people resent this. They say 'Why should I think of peace as non-war? There must be some other way to define peace.' In fact one of participants sp eaks in the projection about this because there are many ways that people are responding to Hiroshima itself as a monument. All the old army installations and military sites have been converted into parks and greenery. On the other hand there is the present day continuation of war by means of domestic violence, street violence, school antagonisms, various exclusions in daily life and even some people who desire for a return to 'the glorious past'. All this is not understood as a part of the peace education. Those elements are not presented.

From this point of view, there is the possibility of using the monument by various generations, with all the disagreement here. That in itself has made the monument a peace-maker, as a symbolic structure used by various generations together, to address the issue of peace, as seen by them and the contemporary world.

Audience Member- The Buddhist teacher Thicht THat Nahn has said that 'there is no way to peace, peace is the way.'. I was wondering if peace can be achieved by memorializing an act of war, no matter how well intentioned it may be.

K.W.- In this case, I feel if there is any contribution to peace here, it is to bring to the surface what is hidden - to help the process of opening up. Regarding the bombing, we're talking about a cultural kind of trauma, also that of particular people, and the people who chose to be a part of the project, who have varying degrees of traumatic symptoms.

The fact that they try to heal themselves is a kind of leap and in the project something is being to transmitted to those who are watching the film, some of whom might identify with the speakers or the experience or might reexperience it. In that sense maybe there is some therapy there, but I cannot claim I am a therapist or a healer.

However, I have to bring an example- the case of one participant. Her name is Umi. She grew up in a family that was like a boot-camp, commanded by an old Imperial High Officer - her grandfather, who terrorized the family and helped form her identity. In the project she's confessing that to thousands of people for the first time, something she would ordinarily never even think to say. She waited a long time before becoming a part of the project. The last week before the projection she mentioned maybe she could be a part of it. Why? Because she wanted to help me and help the project. But also she was ready to help herself by making a leap to use the project for that purpose. Well, of course, between her and the family, a strange space was created because she was to reveal all those hidden facts of abuse and trauma and certain deep inflicted wounds. Her case is very unfortunate but also quite typical.

Now, through this, something happened. It is not that peace was created in a way that we like peace to seem, as some kind of tranquility and glorious moment where everyone is happy. No, that is not the kind of peace I like. The peace that is difficult, in which antagonistic voices are exchanged,the conflicts are revealed, in that sense the peace was made,- because she told me afte I returned to Japan a few times 'Now we argue. Before it was silence.' Was that silence a peace? No, it was the continuation of war by means of silence. Now they argue, they fight. So the peace was made. And also, peace was suddenly within herself. Suddenly she realized she's in charge- she can manage her life. She's no longer stuck in the former symptomatic repetition. She can do something different and move on. This kind of tension is healthier. So that's a kind of peace.

But as regards Hiroshima, of course we can say, but this is only an individual case. This is Umi and her family. They are not the city. But this is a difficult zone because what's happening within Umi is social. Her family matter are social and the family's interior was actually a horrifying battleground. There are many more Umi's out there. They are watching this projection. So now what's happening here? Where is the boundary between Umi and the City? and the World? Of course, I'm not claiming that I'm healing the city and the world. But somehow people make use of this project and to some degree the dissemination is a contagious process, how far it goes I don't know.

Audience Member - I have a question. I read in one of your books that you defined the role of the artist as 'someone who disrupts the regulation of everyday life'. I was wondering how far an artist can go, in your opinion, in disrupting that administration of everyday life? For instance, there are artists and activists who charge enormous credit card bills which they will never pay, nor do they intend to pay. But they do very good work and it supports them. Otherwise they would not be supported. So I wondered if you could say something to that, what do you think of that?

K.W.- Well, if you're talking about the tradition of hackers and the old school parasites in the system, who diseminate something - it depends on the project

Audience Member - Are there circumstances where it's warranted?

K.W. - If its part of an artistic project and ultimately includes the act of being arrested and put on trial - then its all part of a complex project that will shift everyone's imagination and perception - then it will qualify to be in the category of some situationist project. I still cannot judge though. We would have to use a specific example for discussion.

Dan Cameron - I don't know if it's what you have in mind, but the whole E-toy vs. E-toy a couple of years ago..... E-toy was a Swiss artists collective, 3 to 4 people who create challenged spaces on the internet and use the internet in an activist way. They came up with the name E-toy back in the dark ages of the internet and when the E-toy retail company emerged on the internet, one of the first things they did was to claim the activist E-toys web domain invalid and they filed a lawsuit. While this was being worked out through the courts, the artists group found themselves in a position to empower and activate a community around the world, people who would jam up corporate E-toys lines and computer systems, creating a form of economic terrorism against the company until they backed down. In fact, before the trial, the company did back down. That's an interesting case of economic....

K.W. - maybe not 'terrorism'.

D.C.- not terrorism, but economic damage where the free flow of capital is disrupted by a small group of artists.

K.W.- To disrupt, we have to have a good reason. We have to measure the price of the disruption versus what we gain. But one piece of advice, in case you are masterminding something, please have a lawyer.

END

by jacques strapp
new york, ny
2000-10-23

The present interview is an excerpt and was published in http://www.thespleen.com/ in the occasion of the projection of a film of Kryzysztif Wodiczko's Hiroshima project which was shown at Galerie Lelong in New York City in 2000.. Is reproduced here by kind permission by the authors.